Post by - SQUAD - on May 27, 2009 8:00:56 GMT -5
NiMH vs. NiCD - BY LAGALAG888
Everybody knows there are two kinds of cells, but they may not know some of the major advantages and disadvantages of the common cells on the market. Most people won't bother to do any of this, but if you have the right charger and need all the power you can get out of your battery here are a few steps to follow.
Dischargeing And Storage
When discharging it is good to have a cutoff box on your discharger if you do not have one built into your peak charger. .9v per cell (5.4v for a 6 cell pack) works best for both Nickel Metal Hydrate(NiMH) and Nickle Cadium(NiCD). For NiCD's you should always discharge you pack right after you are done using it, or it will run "flat" the next time you charge it, meaning you'll loose voltage and runtime until the pack has been cycled a few times. Also always store them discharged to .9v per cell and periodtically cycle them to keep the voltage from dropping to low.
For NiMH you shoud discharge right before you use it, not after you are done using it. Also use .9v per cell cutoff when discharging. when storeing always leave your battery partially charged, if your storing it over 1 months time charge it all the way, for 1 month or less charge to %50. It is also reccommended that you cycle your packs the day before you use them to get them running at their peak.
PowerFlex And other Flex Modes(applies only to peak chargers)
Some chargers have a PowerFlex mode or similar setting that "burps" the batteries in order to reduce the buildup of crystals. It works by periodically reversing the polarity of the current going into your battery. Do not use this on NiMH, it will cause overcharge or false peak. Only use this feature on NiCD's which are not taking a full charge, if your packs are working well, or only need to be cycled a few times just stick to linear charing.
General charging
There are many chargers that have selectable charge amperages. Each capacity and type of cell has certain voltages that work best and are safe for it. As a rule of the thumb you generally want to charge at 1 to 2 times its rated capacity. For example a 2400Mah NiCD pack should be charged at 4 to 5 amps. A 3300Mah pack should be charged at 5 to 6 amps. The higher the amperage rate, within its limits, the more voltage you will get, meaning you'll get a higher ROF, but less runtime. The lower the voltage the opposite occures.
Why spend so much money on a stupid battery?
There are several reasons. Spending extra money on a good battery means you can use your gun longer without having to change out the battery, it also means that you can upgrade your gun more, ask Fox about that, he seems to know as much about mechboxes as I do batterys. Buying a battery wiht more cells ovbiosly increases rof and alllows for higher upgrades. Most of the time that is what people do, but for some cases where you can't fit a bigger battery your only chioce is higher powered cells. The best NiCD cells are 2400's(Sanyo), the best NiMH are 3300 Gold Peak( not sanyos, they are good, but GP's outdo them in every aspect). You could take it even further and buy a Zapped pack from a battery company such as www.promatchracing.com. Basically zapping is a process where the cells capacity is increased, think of it as adding a trubo charger to your car or putting in an M120 instead of the stock spring. Zapped cells are more expensive, but is is worth it, like Fox says about FTK's. The only other alternative is buying a whole bunch of cheper lower capacity batteries, which many people do. But wouldn't it be nice if you could power you gun with an M120 and good ROF all day without having to switch batteries all the time?
If you disagree and are certain that I'm wrong, go to promatchracing and click on faq to find out, they are one of the world's best distributors for high powered racing packs which also work great in airsoft guns.
Original post of Captain Insano of AirsoftOhio.
Originally Posted by LAGALAG888 - BY TAMBLOT
NiMH vs. NiCD
"There are many chargers that have selectable charge amperages. Each capacity and type of cell has certain voltages that work best and are safe for it. As a rule of the thumb you generally want to charge at 1 to 2 times its rated capacity. For example a 2400Mah NiCD pack should be charged at 4 to 5 amps. A 3300Mah pack should be charged at 5 to 6 amps."
I just would like to add some on this. The thing behind the 1 - 2 times the rated capacity charging is that, the cells could absorb charge fast. Caution is needed on this though as the charge absorption rate drops by the time the pack is around 70% full. Therefore, should you want to do a high current charging for NiCd packs, the charger must have a sensing feature which would switch from high current to low current once the battery pack charge has reached 70%. Otherwise, an overcharging would be possible to occur. Some charger has thermal sensing circuit. The battery pack temperature decreases as it approaches the full charge state. Again, this is only applicable to high current starting charge.
BY ENERGY FRIEND
Yes, it is correct, charge absorption start at a high rate then started to slow down when it reach 70%, this is because of the voltage of the battery being charge is increating resisting the voltage of charging source.
That why formula for charging voltage is as ff. :
Charging Voltage = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad or Ni-MH x 1.12 or 1.13 (this is for slow charging, trickle charging or float charging.)
Medium Speed Charging = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad or Ni-MH x 1.2 (this is for medium charging, a safety timer, or negative delta V circuitry is needed to avoid over charging battery.)
High Speed Charging = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad or Ni-MH x 1.35 (this is for high speed charging, a safety timer, negative delta V circuitry, voltage comparator circuitry is needed)
Ultra High Speed Charging (one hour or less) = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad and Ni-MH x 1.5 (this requires all the above circuitry plus algorithm to adjust current logically or circuit is with fuzzy logic in order to select best charging current at any situation by self controlling or adjusting it charging voltage.
Once the voltage difference between charging voltage and battery being charged start to lessen, charging rate also begin to reduce that why on most charger, it charge 70% in short time, and longer time to fill up.
For consumer batteries, only ANSMANN Energy series have micro processor for each channel cell that why it is very costly and reserved only for the professional such as photo shooter who need this feature to maximize performance of their battery when shooting events, weddings or journalist.
For AEG, there are plenty to choose from. TLP and BOL higher end model are with Fuzzy Logic. Imax B5, B6 and Vislero A6 are also with Fuzzy logic micro processor. In today world, Fuzzy logic is seldom heard because it the first generation of logic micro processor, but for battery charging and some home appliances, it adequate. By today standard of multi tasking processor, fuzzy logic become an antiquated technology.
BY HAWKE
LIPO/LI-ION Battery Basic
C = discharge rate.
example :
2000mah battery rated at 15C (given constant discharge)
max discharge rate =
2000mah x 15C / 1000 (1000ma = 1amp) = 30amps
know your motor's discharge rate to now what battery to buy.
if your motor has an amp draw of less than 30amps, ur safe on a 15c if it goes above 30amps then get a battery with a higher c rating.
(an eg1000 will draw 20amps cranking a 120 spring)
BY JOMARX
More MAh + same voltage = more playing time, same (or slightly higher) ROF
Same MAh + more voltage = same playing time, more ROF
BY OSRAC105
remember that C rating will also depend on the maH of the battery...lipoly batts high "C" and high mah can give high drawable discharge...
for example is comparing 2 kinds of batteries with desame brands but the other has a higher mah...
20c 2200mah and 20c 4000mah..
u can compare them by calculating the drawable discharge...
20x2.2amps = 44 amps drawable discharge
20x4 amps = 80 amps drawable discharge
so the 4000 mah 20c battery can give you a higher rate of fire...lalo na when using motors like systema
so kapag bumibili ng battery always check the mah! 2200 mah is mostly the advisable becuase of the size...it doesnt mean dahil 20c ang nakalagay eh tataas na ang rate of fire ng beng2x nyo..pano kung 20c 1500 mah lng yung specs...
20x1.5 amps = 30 amps drawable discharge lng...some battery labels can be misleading sometimes...and some airsofters think na kung mataas ang "C" mabilis din yung ROF and they will expect morethan what the battery can give..
2ND POST BY OSRAC105
ngayon medyo di na ako na lo-lowbat kahit isang araw na laro...it depends din kc on quality of the lipo battery...kung firefox lng hindi talaga kaya isang buong arraw na laro...yun ang perception ng mag gumagamit nun kc yung mga batteries na gamit namin nun eh di masyado maganda yung quality gawa ng firefox...
we use lipo batts for RC, maganda kc quality ng lipo batteries that are made for the purpose specially yung mga fliers..
kaya the most advisable lipo batt that can last a whole day is within the 2200-2400 mah kc yung size nito can fit in a standard M4 handgaurd, stubby, stock and standard boyi anpeq or jg...
higher than this magkaka problema kana sa size ng battery...the bigger the "mah" of the lipo the bigger din the size...
so for your setup na gumagamit ka ng systema magnum kailangan mo ng battery na nasa 15c lng and nasa 2200 mah or more...
or you can change youre setup ratio...instead of using a magnum motor you can use a CA extreme motor and use a battery with a 20c 2200-2400 mah capacity...
i think C rating stands for "continuous discharge"
for charging: the higher tha mah the longer the charging time pg gamit mo lang eh ordinary intelligent chargers...i think 0.8 ampers lng yata yung charging rate nya...not like digital lipo balancers na pwede e adjust yung charging amps..most advisable din is within 1.8 amps atleast 1.5 hours lang cguro..the lower the charging the safer....nver charge a lipo batt more than 2.5 amps..
BY SLAYER MOONLIGHT
Bored inside my room, I decided to give my idle mind something getting a headache for .
I tried to recall my college electronics while holding two lipo batteries. One has a 11.1V 12C 1100mah spec and the other one is 11.1V 15C 1250mah. I know that if a connected them in parallel, it'll have the same 11.1V and current capacity will add up (Kirchoff's Voltage/Current Law). Is it also correct to say that the two parallel-connected batteries will have an exact 27C discharge rate? Or, are there any factors/variables that I forgot to consider?
REPLY BY OSRAC105
Paralleling 2 different batteries is dangerous... Only same battery with same specs (pref. same brand) should be paralleled.
I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS KASI ANG LAKI NA NANG NAGAGASTOS KO SA KABIBILI NG LIPOLY AT NASISIRA LANG AFTER ILANG GAMIT ... JUST BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW TO CHARGE PROPERLY ... SANA NAKA TULONG AKO SA INYO.
Everybody knows there are two kinds of cells, but they may not know some of the major advantages and disadvantages of the common cells on the market. Most people won't bother to do any of this, but if you have the right charger and need all the power you can get out of your battery here are a few steps to follow.
Dischargeing And Storage
When discharging it is good to have a cutoff box on your discharger if you do not have one built into your peak charger. .9v per cell (5.4v for a 6 cell pack) works best for both Nickel Metal Hydrate(NiMH) and Nickle Cadium(NiCD). For NiCD's you should always discharge you pack right after you are done using it, or it will run "flat" the next time you charge it, meaning you'll loose voltage and runtime until the pack has been cycled a few times. Also always store them discharged to .9v per cell and periodtically cycle them to keep the voltage from dropping to low.
For NiMH you shoud discharge right before you use it, not after you are done using it. Also use .9v per cell cutoff when discharging. when storeing always leave your battery partially charged, if your storing it over 1 months time charge it all the way, for 1 month or less charge to %50. It is also reccommended that you cycle your packs the day before you use them to get them running at their peak.
PowerFlex And other Flex Modes(applies only to peak chargers)
Some chargers have a PowerFlex mode or similar setting that "burps" the batteries in order to reduce the buildup of crystals. It works by periodically reversing the polarity of the current going into your battery. Do not use this on NiMH, it will cause overcharge or false peak. Only use this feature on NiCD's which are not taking a full charge, if your packs are working well, or only need to be cycled a few times just stick to linear charing.
General charging
There are many chargers that have selectable charge amperages. Each capacity and type of cell has certain voltages that work best and are safe for it. As a rule of the thumb you generally want to charge at 1 to 2 times its rated capacity. For example a 2400Mah NiCD pack should be charged at 4 to 5 amps. A 3300Mah pack should be charged at 5 to 6 amps. The higher the amperage rate, within its limits, the more voltage you will get, meaning you'll get a higher ROF, but less runtime. The lower the voltage the opposite occures.
Why spend so much money on a stupid battery?
There are several reasons. Spending extra money on a good battery means you can use your gun longer without having to change out the battery, it also means that you can upgrade your gun more, ask Fox about that, he seems to know as much about mechboxes as I do batterys. Buying a battery wiht more cells ovbiosly increases rof and alllows for higher upgrades. Most of the time that is what people do, but for some cases where you can't fit a bigger battery your only chioce is higher powered cells. The best NiCD cells are 2400's(Sanyo), the best NiMH are 3300 Gold Peak( not sanyos, they are good, but GP's outdo them in every aspect). You could take it even further and buy a Zapped pack from a battery company such as www.promatchracing.com. Basically zapping is a process where the cells capacity is increased, think of it as adding a trubo charger to your car or putting in an M120 instead of the stock spring. Zapped cells are more expensive, but is is worth it, like Fox says about FTK's. The only other alternative is buying a whole bunch of cheper lower capacity batteries, which many people do. But wouldn't it be nice if you could power you gun with an M120 and good ROF all day without having to switch batteries all the time?
If you disagree and are certain that I'm wrong, go to promatchracing and click on faq to find out, they are one of the world's best distributors for high powered racing packs which also work great in airsoft guns.
Original post of Captain Insano of AirsoftOhio.
Originally Posted by LAGALAG888 - BY TAMBLOT
NiMH vs. NiCD
"There are many chargers that have selectable charge amperages. Each capacity and type of cell has certain voltages that work best and are safe for it. As a rule of the thumb you generally want to charge at 1 to 2 times its rated capacity. For example a 2400Mah NiCD pack should be charged at 4 to 5 amps. A 3300Mah pack should be charged at 5 to 6 amps."
I just would like to add some on this. The thing behind the 1 - 2 times the rated capacity charging is that, the cells could absorb charge fast. Caution is needed on this though as the charge absorption rate drops by the time the pack is around 70% full. Therefore, should you want to do a high current charging for NiCd packs, the charger must have a sensing feature which would switch from high current to low current once the battery pack charge has reached 70%. Otherwise, an overcharging would be possible to occur. Some charger has thermal sensing circuit. The battery pack temperature decreases as it approaches the full charge state. Again, this is only applicable to high current starting charge.
BY ENERGY FRIEND
Yes, it is correct, charge absorption start at a high rate then started to slow down when it reach 70%, this is because of the voltage of the battery being charge is increating resisting the voltage of charging source.
That why formula for charging voltage is as ff. :
Charging Voltage = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad or Ni-MH x 1.12 or 1.13 (this is for slow charging, trickle charging or float charging.)
Medium Speed Charging = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad or Ni-MH x 1.2 (this is for medium charging, a safety timer, or negative delta V circuitry is needed to avoid over charging battery.)
High Speed Charging = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad or Ni-MH x 1.35 (this is for high speed charging, a safety timer, negative delta V circuitry, voltage comparator circuitry is needed)
Ultra High Speed Charging (one hour or less) = full charge voltage of Ni-Cad and Ni-MH x 1.5 (this requires all the above circuitry plus algorithm to adjust current logically or circuit is with fuzzy logic in order to select best charging current at any situation by self controlling or adjusting it charging voltage.
Once the voltage difference between charging voltage and battery being charged start to lessen, charging rate also begin to reduce that why on most charger, it charge 70% in short time, and longer time to fill up.
For consumer batteries, only ANSMANN Energy series have micro processor for each channel cell that why it is very costly and reserved only for the professional such as photo shooter who need this feature to maximize performance of their battery when shooting events, weddings or journalist.
For AEG, there are plenty to choose from. TLP and BOL higher end model are with Fuzzy Logic. Imax B5, B6 and Vislero A6 are also with Fuzzy logic micro processor. In today world, Fuzzy logic is seldom heard because it the first generation of logic micro processor, but for battery charging and some home appliances, it adequate. By today standard of multi tasking processor, fuzzy logic become an antiquated technology.
BY HAWKE
LIPO/LI-ION Battery Basic
C = discharge rate.
example :
2000mah battery rated at 15C (given constant discharge)
max discharge rate =
2000mah x 15C / 1000 (1000ma = 1amp) = 30amps
know your motor's discharge rate to now what battery to buy.
if your motor has an amp draw of less than 30amps, ur safe on a 15c if it goes above 30amps then get a battery with a higher c rating.
(an eg1000 will draw 20amps cranking a 120 spring)
BY JOMARX
More MAh + same voltage = more playing time, same (or slightly higher) ROF
Same MAh + more voltage = same playing time, more ROF
BY OSRAC105
remember that C rating will also depend on the maH of the battery...lipoly batts high "C" and high mah can give high drawable discharge...
for example is comparing 2 kinds of batteries with desame brands but the other has a higher mah...
20c 2200mah and 20c 4000mah..
u can compare them by calculating the drawable discharge...
20x2.2amps = 44 amps drawable discharge
20x4 amps = 80 amps drawable discharge
so the 4000 mah 20c battery can give you a higher rate of fire...lalo na when using motors like systema
so kapag bumibili ng battery always check the mah! 2200 mah is mostly the advisable becuase of the size...it doesnt mean dahil 20c ang nakalagay eh tataas na ang rate of fire ng beng2x nyo..pano kung 20c 1500 mah lng yung specs...
20x1.5 amps = 30 amps drawable discharge lng...some battery labels can be misleading sometimes...and some airsofters think na kung mataas ang "C" mabilis din yung ROF and they will expect morethan what the battery can give..
2ND POST BY OSRAC105
ngayon medyo di na ako na lo-lowbat kahit isang araw na laro...it depends din kc on quality of the lipo battery...kung firefox lng hindi talaga kaya isang buong arraw na laro...yun ang perception ng mag gumagamit nun kc yung mga batteries na gamit namin nun eh di masyado maganda yung quality gawa ng firefox...
we use lipo batts for RC, maganda kc quality ng lipo batteries that are made for the purpose specially yung mga fliers..
kaya the most advisable lipo batt that can last a whole day is within the 2200-2400 mah kc yung size nito can fit in a standard M4 handgaurd, stubby, stock and standard boyi anpeq or jg...
higher than this magkaka problema kana sa size ng battery...the bigger the "mah" of the lipo the bigger din the size...
so for your setup na gumagamit ka ng systema magnum kailangan mo ng battery na nasa 15c lng and nasa 2200 mah or more...
or you can change youre setup ratio...instead of using a magnum motor you can use a CA extreme motor and use a battery with a 20c 2200-2400 mah capacity...
i think C rating stands for "continuous discharge"
for charging: the higher tha mah the longer the charging time pg gamit mo lang eh ordinary intelligent chargers...i think 0.8 ampers lng yata yung charging rate nya...not like digital lipo balancers na pwede e adjust yung charging amps..most advisable din is within 1.8 amps atleast 1.5 hours lang cguro..the lower the charging the safer....nver charge a lipo batt more than 2.5 amps..
BY SLAYER MOONLIGHT
Bored inside my room, I decided to give my idle mind something getting a headache for .
I tried to recall my college electronics while holding two lipo batteries. One has a 11.1V 12C 1100mah spec and the other one is 11.1V 15C 1250mah. I know that if a connected them in parallel, it'll have the same 11.1V and current capacity will add up (Kirchoff's Voltage/Current Law). Is it also correct to say that the two parallel-connected batteries will have an exact 27C discharge rate? Or, are there any factors/variables that I forgot to consider?
REPLY BY OSRAC105
Paralleling 2 different batteries is dangerous... Only same battery with same specs (pref. same brand) should be paralleled.
I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS KASI ANG LAKI NA NANG NAGAGASTOS KO SA KABIBILI NG LIPOLY AT NASISIRA LANG AFTER ILANG GAMIT ... JUST BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW TO CHARGE PROPERLY ... SANA NAKA TULONG AKO SA INYO.
